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Crashes of 1.26.22.15-1.26.22.13 
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Joined: 2010-04-07 08:23:18
Posts: 210
Hello Henri,

had an odd one happen to me today while running 1.26.22.15. I was preparing to take a picture and used my "Photo Settings" button that I made using the excellent Lua support you added. The viewer crashed instantly.

Now, that button does the following:
Code:
        SetDebugSetting("TextureLoadFullRes", true)
        SetDebugSetting("RenderVolumeLODFactor", 6.0)
        SetDebugSetting("RenderAvatarLODFactor", 3.0)
        SetDebugSetting("RenderRiggedMeshShadow", 3)
        SetDebugSetting("RenderDepthOfField", true)
just to give you an idea what we're working against.

I then restarted, only to have the viewer crash again right when it should have started rendering (no doubt due to one of those settings getting saved). So I rolled back to 1.26.22.14. Same effect, immediate crash. 1.26.22.13, same effect, immediate crash. 1.26.22.12 then finally loaded and worked fine for the rest of the lengthy session. So I presume the relevant change that causes this was introduced with .13.

The log files for all versions that crash show
Code:
WARNING: LLVolumeFace::resizeIndices: Negative number of indices passed (-6). Zeored.
right before the crash.

I attached the logs for the .15 crash, presuming the others won't really provide any additional insight. I do have them filed away, however, in case they should become of interest.


Love,
Lia


Attachments:
File comment: Crash logs
201808141005.tar.bz2 [26.43 KiB]
Downloaded 123 times
2018-08-14 17:11:45
Profile

Joined: 2009-03-17 18:42:51
Posts: 5523
The problem is with HUDs: I changed the code to use the volume LOD factor for HUDs primitive LOD, however the normal value for that factor is limited to 3.0 (as per the graphics settings when pushed to the max with the slider) and so using the max primitive LOD (3) for a LOD factor (which is a multiplier, not a LOD number) of 3.0 made sense... Of course, when you set the LOD factor to higher values, it causes a crash (since there is no LOD 4+ for primitives).
I fixed that for next release (the LOD 3 will always be used for HUDs, regardless of the volume LOD factor value).

Anyway, you should NEVER push the RenderVolumeLODFactor value beyond 3.0: it's totally useless and only makes things worst in many cases (e.g. very small prims can derender at very high LOD, because of integer overflows).
Note also that RenderAvatarLODFactor is already clamped to 1.0 anyway.

Finally, TextureLoadFullRes should never be enabled in a production environment: it will exhaust the memory and cause issues in some parts of the code where I did not yet add memory allocation failure checks, causing crashes. I should probably just remove that setting...


2018-08-14 19:28:22
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Joined: 2010-04-07 08:23:18
Posts: 210
Hello again Henri,

glad you could isolate the problem quickly, and thank you once again for all the work you do.

Henri Beauchamp wrote:
Anyway, you should NEVER push the RenderVolumeLODFactor value beyond 3.0: it's totally useless and only makes things worst in many cases (e.g. very small prims can derender at very high LOD, because of integer overflows).
I value you skill and knowledge, but here I know from experience that this is very much relevant, especially when working zoomed in to mitigate SL's wide angle camera.

Henri Beauchamp wrote:
Note also that RenderAvatarLODFactor is already clamped to 1.0 anyway.
Good to know. This is most likely due to the fact that I haven't changed the relevant parameter set literally in years. :oops:

Henri Beauchamp wrote:
Finally, TextureLoadFullRes should never be enabled in a production environment: it will exhaust the memory and cause issues in some parts of the code where I did not yet add memory allocation failure checks, causing crashes. I should probably just remove that setting...
So you keep saying. As you do for the snapshot stitching issue which is the one thing that causes me to curse the Cool VL Viewer each and every time I take a picture. I am aware of the memory use. My system has 32 GByte of RAM. My GPU has 12. I have done smooth 4k video recordings of SL using your viewer. I do watch its memory use, and this is a setting I am using only for the duration of taking pictures.

I know you are developing your viewer mainly for your own use, and I am thankful that you are making it available to others, as I still think it is by far the most desirable viewer out there. But at times I do wish you wouldn't make light of other people's use cases, especially when it comes to resource usage or quality things like Windlight/ALM/Ambient Occlusion that some of us who do want a more realistic feel to the rendering are relying on.

So your statement ("I should probably just remove that setting...") is very much along that line and, at best, quite exasperating. I know beggars can't be choosers, but I really wish you would consider that other people may have other use cases and environments and not wipe them off the table with a swift move like that.

Love,
Lia


2018-08-15 05:02:12
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Joined: 2009-03-17 18:42:51
Posts: 5523
Amalia Illios wrote:
I value you skill and knowledge
Apparently not...

Quote:
but here I know from experience that this is very much relevant
And I know from experience, and because I worked for the past 11 years on the viewer code and came to intimately know it, that such high LOD settings got negative (and counterintuitive) effects.

Quote:
especially when working zoomed in to mitigate SL's wide angle camera.
If you push camera settings in the same unreasonable way, I'm not surprised you need to compensate them...

Quote:
So you keep saying. .../... I am aware of the memory use. My system has 32 GByte of RAM. My GPU has 12. I have done smooth 4k video recordings of SL using your viewer. I do watch its memory use, and this is a setting I am using only for the duration of taking pictures.
I too have 32Gb RAM, but even then I certainly won't use that setting (it can fill up the RAM in a matter of minutes or even a few dozens of seconds, depending on the sim), especially since it got zero visual impact on actually visible objects (for which the texture LOD is already maxed out, even with that setting off).

Quote:
As you do for the snapshot stitching issue which is the one thing that causes me to curse the Cool VL Viewer each and every time I take a picture.
Not sure why you mention this here: it's unrelated. As for me not implementing some things, it's my choice. I simply don't need these things and won't loose time implementing them, debugging them, maintaining them. If you want them implemented, then simply provide a working (bug-free) patch of your own brew.

Quote:
I know you are developing your viewer mainly for your own use
Correction: entirely for my own use !

Quote:
and I am thankful that you are making it available to others, as I still think it is by far the most desirable viewer out there. But at times I do wish you wouldn't make light of other people's use cases, especially when it comes to resource usage or quality things like Windlight/ALM/Ambient Occlusion that some of us who do want a more realistic feel to the rendering are relying on.
No use for me = no motivation to spend time on it = no work done. The equation is pretty straightforward to understand, right ? I develop and maintain this viewer alone and did it for the past 11 years, on my sparse free time; choices have to be done and I am and will always be the one and only to do them ! Period.

Quote:
So your statement ("I should probably just remove that setting...") is very much along that line and, at best, quite exasperating. I know beggars can't be choosers, but I really wish you would consider that other people may have other use cases and environments and not wipe them off the table with a swift move like that.
I wrote "should probably", not "shall" neither "will", but if you insist, I will do it, just to teach you a lesson...
What matter most for me are stability and performances. Any thing that might harm those gets eradicated.


2018-08-15 15:20:36
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