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64-bit port? 
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Joined: 2013-07-01 20:14:08
Posts: 7
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I noticed that "another viewer" is working on porting their code to build a 64-bit version. I do get the "out of memory" warning at times, so I wonder if there are any plans for a 64-bit version of Cool VL Viewer.


2013-12-17 02:55:33
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Joined: 2009-03-17 18:42:51
Posts: 3653
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Well, if you run the 32bits viewer under a 64bits OS you can already enjoy 1Gb more virtual address space, which should make fragmented/exhausted memory situations a lot rarer.

There will probably be 64bits Linux builds sometime next year, since I'm soon going to migrate my main system from 32bits to 64bits (still a few things to solve in the latter, such as old software I've been using for decades and that need patching to be 64bits compatible).

It is however highly unlikely that I will provide 64bits Windows builds since the free Visual Studio C++ Express can't do it and since I'm not going to waste money in Visual Studio C++ (non-express)...


2013-12-18 13:00:37
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Joined: 2012-01-19 03:18:40
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Henri Beauchamp wrote:
Well, if you run the 32bits viewer under a 64bits OS you can already enjoy 1Gb more virtual address space, which should make fragmented/exhausted memory situations a lot rarer.
I hope you don't mind my asking, but how does this work?


2014-01-09 01:52:20
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linyifei wrote:
Henri Beauchamp wrote:
Well, if you run the 32bits viewer under a 64bits OS you can already enjoy 1Gb more virtual address space, which should make fragmented/exhausted memory situations a lot rarer.
I hope you don't mind my asking, but how does this work?
64bits OSes simply provide a full 4Gb address space to 32bits applications that run on them. With 32bits OSes, 1 Gb (or 2 Gb for badly configured Windows) must be kept for the OS itself, and there's only 3Gb (or 2) of address space left for each application. This has been explained countless times in this forum...


2014-01-09 22:38:48
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Joined: 2011-10-07 10:39:20
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Hi Henri,

actually there are some free choices for a free Win64 compiler toolchain. (at least the command line cl.exe one you use). The 64-bit version is included in older platform SDK versions…

Or maybe clang will come to be a viable choice in some time, but well, its not usually fun to spend too much time on Win64 bit.

Kathrine


2014-01-18 18:42:43
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Joined: 2009-03-17 18:42:51
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Changing the tool chain used to build the viewer would also mean changing the whole build system for Windows and rebuilding all the pre-built libraries... I can't afford spending my time on such a task, especially for an OS I never use (but to build the Windows binaries of the viewer)... Now, if someone is ready to take over this task (and burden, given how unfriendly Windows is for developers), then they are most welcome !


2014-01-19 13:13:03
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Joined: 2013-07-01 20:14:08
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Hello Henri,

You make a very good point that it would be a lot of work to support essentially a whole new OS (Windows 64-bit), since you would also have to recompile all the extras that the viewer needs.

On the other hand, many of the changes to the latest versions of your viewer, 1.26.x.13, seem to have the purpose of dealing with low memory situations to avoid an immediate crash. Of course, these measures only provide a brief respite, and give you a chance to relog, rather than truly solving this problem.

As you know, moving to 64-bit Windows compilation, along with Linux, would make these problems essentially go away, since the memory available to a 64-bit process is many times as much, and is unlikely to run out.

I hear some people, though not you Henri, complain that the performance benefits of 64-bit don't justify it, and those people are missing the point. As applications get larger and handle larger data sets, and therefore require more memory, 64-bit compilation will become more and more necessary.

Regards,
Charles Clary


2014-03-08 17:29:12
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Joined: 2009-03-17 18:42:51
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charles.clary wrote:
Hello Henri,

You make a very good point that it would be a lot of work to support essentially a whole new OS (Windows 64-bit), since you would also have to recompile all the extras that the viewer needs.

On the other hand, many of the changes to the latest versions of your viewer, 1.26.x.13, seem to have the purpose of dealing with low memory situations to avoid an immediate crash. Of course, these measures only provide a brief respite, and give you a chance to relog, rather than truly solving this problem.
There have been *many* such changes in the Cool VL Viewer in the past (the first changes date back from the first mesh-enabled branches) making it the most robust 32bits viewer around with regards to low/fragmented address space situations.

Quote:
As you know, moving to 64-bit Windows compilation, along with Linux, would make these problems essentially go away, since the memory available to a 64-bit process is many times as much, and is unlikely to run out.

I hear some people, though not you Henri, complain that the performance benefits of 64-bit don't justify it, and those people are missing the point. As applications get larger and handle larger data sets, and therefore require more memory, 64-bit compilation will become more and more necessary.
Yes, I perfectly know that the 64bits route is the only solution to solve the virtual address space starvation issue that only gets worst with each new feature (mesh, materials, etc). But I'd rather wait for LL to do the necessary work on the pre-compiled libraries before moving myself to 64bits build systems (at least to Linux 64bits, since Windows is a no-no unless some *free* and *compatible* (with LL's pre-built libraries) 64bits build environment can be used to build the viewer on it).


2014-03-08 18:22:41
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Joined: 2010-04-07 08:23:18
Posts: 165
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Giving this a bit of a bump, since the day finally seems to have come that LL has seen the necessity and has vowed to finally tackle the 64-bit issue (or so Inara Pey reports in http://modemworld.me/2016/01/16/sl-project-updates-16-22-sbug-tpvd-and-64-bit-official-viewers/). No mention of Linux, obviously, as the Lab decided to give its users the finger as we all know :x

I'm really, really hoping to see a 64-bit build of the Cool VL Viewer in the not-too-distant future. Ever since I started running in 4k, SL with a 32-bit viewer is just no longer feasible (except for limited, controlled environments). So I've been constantly switching between Cool VL for building and 64-bit Singularity for everyday use and photography, and the latter's been driving me nuts! :lol:

Anyway, just wanted to get that little speck of news into this thread.

Love,
Lia


2016-01-17 09:23:41
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Joined: 2009-03-17 18:42:51
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I'm not yet (quite) ready to migrate my computers to 64 bits Linux... Why ?... Because a few pieces of software I am using (for decades) are not 64 bits compatible...

There's also the recent "systemd" fiasco, with pretty much all Linux distros migrating to this monstrousity instead of keeping the good old, 100% reliable, 100% modular, 100% scriptable, 100% predictable, 100% admin-friendly, 100% lean, 100% clean SysVinit... One of the very few options left to me, as far as a workable/adequate (RPM-based, since that's what I've been working with since 1998, with Mandrake v5.1; before, I was using Slackware) Linux distro is involved, is PC Linux OS or... a custom built Linux system !!!

I *might* migrate to 64 bits PC Linux OS sometime this year, but this depends on many different factors and, unless this migration is done, the Cool VL Viewer will never see a 64 bits release from me (this said, if someone else wishes to provide 64 bits builds, they are free to do so !).

As for higher resolution with a 32 bits viewer, did you try the latest release driver version (358.16) from NVIDIA ?... It alleviated A LOT the memory constraints of the viewer and I, so far, didn't encounter any more any auto-throttling of the draw distance by the Cool VL Viewer since this new driver version has been installed (and that's on a 32 bits system, with only 3 Gb of virtual address space available to the viewer, instead of the 4 Gb you got when running it on a 64 bits system)...


2016-01-17 12:51:46
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