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Feature Request -- 114 attachments patch 
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Joined: 2009-10-01 04:21:18
Posts: 3
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I tried to do a search for this, but apparently the word "attachment" is too common.

Reference: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-489

Anyway, I think you should add this to your client. It is the 3rd most voted for major issue. If we can get all 3rd party clients to start implementing it (and this one being one of the most popular) maybe the lindens will start listening. I won't go into details on why I think it's a good idea as that is covered pretty good in the jira ticket.

So what do you all think?


2009-10-01 04:28:45
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Joined: 2009-03-17 18:42:51
Posts: 4751
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I will not add this bad and poor hack to the Cool SL Viewer.

The reasons are:

  • Residents not using the exact same hack in their viewer cannot see your attachments properly rezzed.
  • While I concur that there are not enough attachments points on avatars, 114 points is just insane and would lead to lag monsters (the more you wear attachments and the more you make, *both* the sim server and the residents viewers (including yours) lag).
  • Because of the above, LL might well decide to blacklist viewers using this hack, and I don't want the Cool SL Viewer blacklisted !


2009-10-01 16:06:00
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Joined: 2009-10-01 04:21:18
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While I do understand your reason of "Residents not using the exact same hack in their viewer cannot see your attachments properly rezzed." I don't agree with the lag reason.

The lag potential is not increased, if I really wanted to lag a sim, I could take up 20ms+ of script time using 5 scripts, currently there are 30+ attachment points, each can hold over 250 prims. If you were to put just 10 scripts in each of those prims, you'd have 75000+ scripts.
Lag isn't really the issue here.

So, as for lag there is already an issue, and a prim/script limiter should be also be implemented. Though I believe that would more than likely have to be server side thing.

Thanks for considering this though.


2009-10-02 03:07:59
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Joined: 2009-03-17 18:42:51
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I'm afraid you are wrong.

The more possible attachments, the more prims (and of course the more scripts) on the average avatar. This is as simple as that.

Also, bear in mind that the sim server is limited in prims count (15000 for a normal sim and down to 3750 for a "homestead" sim), but that attachments do *not* count in this limit, meaning they impose an added burden to the sim server (remember that some prim hair got over a hundred of prims: 10 female avatars in the sim, and you can bet there's already 1000 more prims for the server to deal with, just for the hair, which represents a 25% added load for prims in a homestead !).

With more attachments worn, you also increase dramatically the amount of data that must be exchanged over the network between the server and all the viewers of the residents in the sim (this data holds the description of your attachments, as well as the textures, for example), and when TPing or crossing sims between the departing sim server, the asset server, and arriving sim server since the attachments states (which also include their contents such as notecards and scripts) are saved to the asset server before departing the sim, then re-fetched by the arrival sim server from the asset server: if you often fail TPs or sim corssings, try removing your attachments and you will see how much faster and successful they are !

Finally, client side, the more attachments per avatar and the more prims to render by the viewer when those avatars are around (try the "Avatar Rendering cost" in the "Advanced" -> "Rendering" -> "Info Displays" menu), meaning that by wearing more, you automatically lag the viewers of people around you by slowing down their fps rate.

The only reasonable solution would be to allow more attachment points and to limit the number of possibly simultaneously worn attachments to what it is right now (i.e. you could have your 114 attachment points, but only wear 39 attachments (HUDs included) simultaneously). This won't happen till LL decides to properly implement the corresponding code into their own, official viewer (and possibly server for the limit in max worn attachments).


2009-10-02 06:36:26
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Joined: 2009-09-08 01:27:46
Posts: 172
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I'd say partially implement this patch so that people using the patch won't look funny. A friend of mine uses this patch, and his attachments are always locked in the position they were in when rezzed, so his hat will be mysteriously floating in place while he's walking around.


2009-12-31 21:09:51
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Joined: 2009-03-17 18:42:51
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Zauber Exonar wrote:
I'd say partially implement this patch so that people using the patch won't look funny. A friend of mine uses this patch, and his attachments are always locked in the position they were in when rezzed, so his hat will be mysteriously floating in place while he's walking around.
Complain to the makers of the viewers which use this ugly hack. It is INCOMPATIBLE with 99,99% of the viewers used by the residents in SL and should NOT be implemented at all till LL releases a compatible viewer with proper reasonable limits enforced (see above).


2010-01-01 13:07:34
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I finally got tired to see trailing/floating attachments around Emerald users in BDSM sims... So I made an "IllegalAttachmentPoints" patch for today's release of the Cool SL Viewer.

With this patch, the Cool SL Viewer is able to render all the objects worn on secondary (illegal) attachment points with the same ID than Emerald's viewer (since this ID is a number and can be associated to any illegal attachment point name, other third parties viewer using different IDs/names may not get the objects rendered at the same position, or may not have all the objects rendered: this is one of the reason why this "feature" is an ugly hack and should never be used by anyone...).

It adds 30 attachment points (secondary points to the existing points on a normal SL avatar), for a total of 68 (30 primary/legal, 30 secondary/illegal, 8 HUD) points.

The Cool SL Viewer however does not recognize the "Left Knee", "Right Knee" (there are already "Left/Right Lower legs" and "Left/Right Lower legs 2" attachment points for the same joints) and "Bridge" attachment points which exist in the Emerald viewer.

This patch also allows to enable the said illegal attachment points in the Cool SL Viewer (by setting the AllowIllegalAttachPoints debug setting to TRUE and restarting the viewer): it is however only intended for debug and test purposes, please DO NOT use illegal attachment points on your avatar: this would make it appear weird to 99.9% of the residents around you (the official viewer doesn't support this), and can even make other users to crash (fixed by the UnknownJointsCrashFix patch in the Cool SL Viewer), getting yourself considered as a griefer... You have been warned !


2010-02-03 16:08:46
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Joined: 2010-02-04 18:38:13
Posts: 17
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Thank you for this patch Henri, I too was getting tired of seeing wayward attachments in orbit around people. In my testing I confirmed I am now able to view the additional illegal attach points properly. However there is no debug setting named "IllegalAttachPoints" listed for me at all. I am running Windows 7 on a quad processor. Standard latest SL client with your new CoolSLViewer-1.23.5.6 installed.

:)


2010-02-04 19:05:35
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Joined: 2009-03-17 18:42:51
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Sorry, I mistyped the name. It's "AllowIllegalAttachPoints".


2010-02-04 19:15:33
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