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New file selector for the Cool VL Viewer 
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Joined: 2011-12-13 14:11:38
Posts: 184
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Henri: please remember we have been without a Mac maintainer for quite long, so the new XUI-based file selector is actually quite new for Mac users. :)

And for the issues raised here, I have to say I'm not a huge fan of the new file selector either. The biggest issue was probably the home that wasn't the home, it will be nice to see this one fixed. For the rest, I won't go as far as Gavin, but I do miss the quick access to external drives, typically. With the new file selector on the Mac, you have to go all the way up the hierarchy then find the Volumes folder and go down there, where in the standard file selector, external drives are just a click away… I also miss the possibility to just drag and drop folders or files on the dialog to select them automatically, but I can live with that…

I've seen once a Mac-ported tool that had a horrible non-native file selector, but that allowed to register favourite locations, that were of course kept between sessions. It wasn't perfect, but it made things really easier. Would there be any possibility to do that in the new file selector?

Thank you. :)


2014-09-30 13:22:11
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Joined: 2009-03-17 18:42:51
Posts: 4809
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ErikaThorkveld wrote:
Henri: please remember we have been without a Mac maintainer for quite long, so the new XUI-based file selector is actually quite new for Mac users. :)
True, but Catten has been providing weekly builds for two months already, and no one prevents MacOS-X users to build the viewer themselves from sources...

Quote:
And for the issues raised here, I have to say I'm not a huge fan of the new file selector either. The biggest issue was probably the home that wasn't the home, it will be nice to see this one fixed.
Already fixed for next builds, but it'd have been nice to know about this bug sooner...

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For the rest, I won't go as far as Gavin, but I do miss the quick access to external drives, typically. With the new file selector on the Mac, you have to go all the way up the hierarchy then find the Volumes folder and go down there, where in the standard file selector, external drives are just a click away…
Like I wrote already, I don't like the "make coffee" type file selectors... I always get rid of those shortcuts in OS file selectors when at all possible (from my point of view it's just worth screen clutter and valuable screen estate wasting)... Sue me for liking it plain, straightforward, and geeky... I could add a "Root" button however, that would point the selector to the root directory (i.e. only two clicks away from the mounted devices in /Volumes (Mac) or /mnt (Linux) and one click from any other drive in Windows)...

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I also miss the possibility to just drag and drop folders or files on the dialog to select them automatically, but I can live with that…
Drag and drop ?... Wazzat ?... Never using drag and drop myself, unless *forced* to do so by UI restrictions... Again, sue me... But if you want it, it's doable: the sources are open... just get to work on them.

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I've seen once a Mac-ported tool that had a horrible non-native file selector, but that allowed to register favourite locations, that were of course kept between sessions.
LL's original (OS-based) file selector didn't even present you with a proper default directory (it opened in the viewer installation directory)... I fixed that ages ago in the Cool VL Viewer, and the new XUI-based file selector provides you with per-context (per file type) defaults... It's therefore not as "horrible" as what you describe.

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It wasn't perfect, but it made things really easier. Would there be any possibility to do that in the new file selector?
Remembering default (and per-context) paths over sessions is easy to do (70 lines of code), and done for next releases already. But what do you bet that some people will dislike it ?...


2014-09-30 15:25:42
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Joined: 2009-03-17 18:42:51
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In this week's releases (v1.26.8.77 and v1.26.12.19), in excess of the persistent per-context directory user's choices (which can also be toggled off if not a welcome feature: see "Advanced" -> "User Interface" -> "Persistent file selector paths"), the "Level up" and "Home" buttons have been replaced with a single fly-out button (defaulting to "Upper level") that also includes "Root directory", "Last used directory" and (for the file selector only) "Suggested directory" choices.

"Root directory" is of course "/" under Linux and MacOS-X, and the equivalent of the explorer's "Computer" entry under Windows (i.e. it gives access to the list of drives).

"Last used directory" refers to the last directory used during the current session (if any) by a former selector invocation.

"Suggested directory" refers to the directory that got suggested when the file selector got opened (i.e. if you navigate and get lost, you can select this to revert to the suggestion the selector made when opened).


2014-10-04 10:25:11
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Joined: 2014-09-29 11:52:35
Posts: 14
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Very much better, so thanks for fixing that.

A minor adjustment perhaps, move the Home directory to the top of the dropdown so it becomes the default as I suspect most people want to go back there often.

Also an entry for Desktop as many keep their current work files and folders there. Not sure how that is on Win and Linux, but Command+D moves to the desktop on the Mac.


2014-10-05 18:25:16
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Joined: 2009-03-17 18:42:51
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Gavin Hird wrote:
A minor adjustment perhaps, move the Home directory to the top of the dropdown so it becomes the default as I suspect most people want to go back there often.
No. The main usage for this button is to navigate the directory tree upward (navigating downward being performed via double-clicks on directory names). The "Upper Level" function shall therefore remain this button's default function. Note however that "fly-out" buttons are no more than a normal button coupled together with a combo box menu: the function of the button itself is independent from the contents of the fly-out menu (I put "Upper Level" in there too, but that's just a choice of mine, and so is the order in which the entries appear in the menu: you can edit it from the floater_fileselector.xml and floater_dirselector.xml XUI files).

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Also an entry for Desktop as many keep their current work files and folders there. Not sure how that is on Win and Linux, but Command+D moves to the desktop on the Mac.
There's no set standard under Linux; the presence of a "Desktop" folder is entirely optional: it depends on the Linux distribution and on the desktop environment it runs (Gnome, KDE, XFce, etc... or none !... desktop environments are optional too under Linux !), and on the way it has been configured/customized by the user (I personally always get rid of such folders... I'm using my own tree in my home directory and don't need for someone else to impose their view on how *my* data should be organized or not !), so there's no standard way for a (non-desktop-environment-dedicated) program to find that folder, or even whether it exists or not.
Also Windows XP, Vista, 7 (and probably 8) got different locations for the "Desktop" entry, not to mention that the said location may also vary depending on the "flavour" ("home", "pro", "ultimate", and whatnot editions) and/or whether networked drives are used or not ("roaming" profiles & stuff)...
To summarize, it's way too non-standard for me to consider implementing it.


2014-10-06 09:24:44
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Joined: 2011-02-12 04:08:52
Posts: 41
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Henri Beauchamp wrote:
I guess everyone else considers it does work pretty well, after all...

Speaking as a Windows 7 user, no. We don't. I cannot tell you how much I hate it, myself. The XUI-based version is clunky as hell, putting aside the bit where it's ridiculous to have a file picker on any program that's inconsistent with that found in the rest of the OS. It's optimized for your preferences, not anybody else's. The only reason why we haven't spoken up is that you have made it clear from the start, as you reiterate here, that...

Henri Beauchamp wrote:
I love the XUI-based file/dir-picker and I won't go back to OS-based ones, ever !

It's your client and your prerogative. I'm not going to argue the point, and the rest of the Cool VL Viewer features are enough to keep me using it. Just don't think that our silence means we like this decision.

(That said, the new persistent-directory setting makes it suck somewhat less—I no longer need to go through seven clicks and a fair amount of scrolling every time I want to save a snapshot for the first time in a session—so thanks for that.)


2014-10-06 18:05:42
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Joined: 2009-03-17 18:42:51
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Samantha Poindexter wrote:
Henri Beauchamp wrote:
I guess everyone else considers it does work pretty well, after all...

Speaking as a Windows 7 user, no. We don't. I cannot tell you how much I hate it, myself. The XUI-based version is clunky as hell, putting aside the bit where it's ridiculous to have a file picker on any program that's inconsistent with that found in the rest of the OS. It's optimized for your preferences, not anybody else's. The only reason why we haven't spoken up is that you have made it clear from the start, as you reiterate here, that...
When it comes to (significant) UI changes, you'll invariably find users who will love them (some of them will express it out loud), others who will hate them (many of them will cry and shout), and the rest who don't care (and will never speak-up as a result): I never expected it to be different with the file selector.

However I was not even speaking about loving or hating the new file selector, but about it working or not: that's very different (it's reason against emotion... I'm a 100% logical guy and I decide based on reason, always).

It's also a tad bit too easy to say: we (like if you were speaking for everyone else... forgetting people who love it and didn't speak, as well as people who don't care) didn't say anything before because you already made you decision. You know, it's like with politics: people who renounce to express their opinion about an announced, upcoming change can't complain about the final decision... I'd have loved to hear about the shortcomings that you found out when I posted the first message in this thread: it would have helped to make a better file selector in the first place, would have spared you some frustration and would have saved me quite some time replying to such hate-message as yours... I asked for input and you declined... Now, you'll have to live with it.

The XUI file/directory selector is however not just an UI change (the latter is actually just a side effect), it's first and foremost a definitive solution to the many file-selector related crashes that plagued the viewer (and keep plaguing other viewers), and this under both Linux and Windows, albeit for different reasons. Re-read my first post, please; you'll see that I mention the UI change advantages (because, yes, there are also advantages, even if not for your specific usage) only last.

So, yes, you'll have to make yourself used to it, or use another viewer.


2014-10-07 08:29:14
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Joined: 2011-02-12 04:08:52
Posts: 41
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Henri Beauchamp wrote:
I had loved to hear about the shortcomings that you found out when I posted the first message in this thread: it would have helped to make a better file selector in the first place, would have spared you some frustration and would have saved me quite some time replying to such hate-message as yours... I asked for input and you declined...


Well, yes. Because when I came to the forum in May to ask about the largest problem, directory persistence, I found that Arwen had already asked about it, and your reply was that this was expected behavior.

I don't know why you changed your mind now, but I'm glad you did.


2014-10-07 13:20:51
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Joined: 2009-03-17 18:42:51
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Samantha Poindexter wrote:
Well, yes. Because when I came to the forum in May to ask about the largest problem, directory persistence, I found that Arwen had already asked about it, and your reply was that this was expected behavior.

I don't know why you changed your mind now, but I'm glad you did.
I didn't change my mind... It's just that I replied the question which was "why are not the choices persistent over sessions ?". The reason was simply that they never were and I therefore didn't bother implementing what would have been (and now is) a new feature when compared with the old file selector... Then, Gavin brought to my attention that implementing such a feature could help some users and make for the "shortcomings" of the new file selector, which is the reason why I implemented it.

If you want the right answer from me, do pose the right question... The choice of words does matter.


2014-10-07 13:46:48
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Joined: 2010-08-21 12:30:36
Posts: 89
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Sorry, Henri, I guess you can blame me for the current round of discussion about the File Picker, as I mistakenly posted on SLU what I thought was a current topic, as I was too quick to see that the topic applied to 1.26.11.18, and not to 1.26.12.18...but, on the other hand, some other users of your viewer, perhaps newer ones, have given valuable voice to the issue, albeit later than ideally.


2014-10-08 04:57:55
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