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Turning People Off with Bad Attitudes 
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Joined: 2011-12-30 03:02:31
Posts: 10
Location: Corporate-Fascist States of America
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I've been a small business part-owner, and have worked retail and food service on and off for close to twenty years. In all that time, one thing has been absolutely clear: do NOT tick off the customers, because not only will they complain to management, they will spread the word about your poor customer service, and that ultimately dooms any business. It's just common sense to be courteous, friendly, and helpful, and show respect at all times — even if those things are the last ones you want to do.

So why is it that certain TPV developers seem to forget this cardinal rule? Granted, they're not selling anything. But they do want and expect people to use their Viewer 2 clone over competing viewers, like Cool VL, Singularity, and Rainbow. Why is it then that the only explanation they seem to have for the multitude of bugs, crashes, and failure to work properly that comes with their precious V2 UI is that we're all "on ten-year-old computers" and that we "need to suck it up and upgrade"? I and many others have pointed out that we're on new or recent computers, often decked out to handle graphics-intensive programs like Second Life, but this falls on deaf ears.

What's more, certain people have been saying for many months now that Viewer 1's days are numbered and that Linden lab will turn off "server side functionality" eventually, which is why we all need to stop complaining, give credit to this certain TPV development team for coming up with such a "great" viewer, yadda yadda yadda. The phrase I've seen most often is "adapt or leave", as though somehow we who actually like functioning viewers for SL and other grids are just clinging to "old and outdated technology" and "hate change". Well, no date has been given by Linden Lab for deactivating server side functionality, and until or unless that happens, it's incredibly irresponsible (not to mention dishonest) to keep making this claim.

What I want to know is, what is the major malfunction with these people? Most people I know on SL are still using Phoenix, Singularity, Cool VL, or Rainbow. Only the very new users who log on seem to use Viewer 2, and they quickly switch to one of the V1 UI viewers once they find out about them. Why, then, are the alluded to imbeciles so hellbent on turning off as many people as they can?

Just curious.


2011-12-31 15:07:36
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Joined: 2011-09-09 15:54:28
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Short, over generalized answer, with apologies to those who don't fall in this category. Most people who make viewers are geeks. Geeks aren't usually known for their interpersonal skills. Also, without singling anyone out, some of these people are very young and immature, and can't handle anything that strays from their field of view. There have been some amazing examples on another SL forum of a few coders who really are rude, arrogant and impestuous. I guess it goes with the territory.


2011-12-31 23:24:10
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Joined: 2010-08-21 12:30:36
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Well, ArchangelMortenwold, as others on here and on SLU know, I have been an outspoken critic of the way the Firestorm/Phoenix team have tried to manipulate their user base into believing that V1 viewers were going to die...that being said...they are kinda right...neither Cool VL nor Singularity are really based on V1 other than in the style of Graphical User Interface(GUI) they use and Rainbow viewer , while still relevant for very specific purposes (older netbooks), is likely to fade away and be replaced by something else. It is the evolution of things.

Furthermore, as for the claims of 'Stability' and 'Ease of use' that the V1 style viewers have used as arguments it seems to be true of 'Stability', in that the V1 has been around and refined for over 5 years while the V2/V3 has been around a little over a year, while SL's server infrastructure is basically the same, so yes, the V1 is likely to continue to enjoy an advantage there.

However, the 'Ease of use' argument is becoming less and less valid as both LL and TPV's are making strides in that area, most notably with the introduction of the so-called Flexible User Interface (FUI) in SLV 3.2.x , which, in my opinion, is where the SLV 2.0 should have started from. But, it took them a full year to get to that point. It isn't the be all to end all by any means but it is a significant revision of the viewer which leads to easier usability and to be honest, if I was brand new and saw a side be side comparison of a TPV V1 and a TPV V3.2, I don't know if I wouldn't choose the V3.2 to try first, and if it was usable enough, stick with it, rather than try the TPV V1.

But I entered SL with SLV 1.23 and then the TPV versions, and I have tried several times to give SLV 2/3 and its TPV versions a fighting chance but until V3.2, I kept going back to the V1 TPV's...and loved it when they proved mesh was not the mountain that some made it out to be...but now, finally, I am spending more time on a V3.2 GUI based viewer than I am on a V1 GUI based veiwer and as it gets more refined, I will probably use the V1 style viewer less and less.

Do not get me wrong...Cool VL and/or Singularity will continue to be on my computer for awhile, the V3.2 viewers just aren't stable enough yet for long sessions.
Perhaps, somewhere down the road, the V1 developers will update the way their viewers look to something that looks and works even better than the V3.2 viewers (God, I hope so, because even with more modern looking buttons, V3.2 is still very blocky/chunky looking rather than a refined piece of software). Then the Viewer Wars can start anew ! :)


2012-01-03 00:51:54
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Joined: 2010-08-21 12:30:36
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This is how this line was supposed to read :
Perhaps, somewhere down the road, the V1 developers will update the way their viewers look to something that looks and works even better than the V1 or the V3.2 viewers (God, I hope so, because even with more modern looking buttons, V3.2 is still very blocky/chunky looking rather than a refined piece of software). Then the Viewer Wars can start anew !


2012-01-03 00:59:15
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Joined: 2010-08-21 12:30:36
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Oh, I almost forgot to address this issue....I have known some people who think that Henri is somewhat rude in his responses (though I would describe it as 'cutting to the heart of the matter' and/or 'not going to suffer fools or disrespectfulness') and to be truthfull, I haven't found a SL TPV developer/programmer yet who doesn't get their feathers ruffled and let someone know it. ;)


2012-01-03 01:33:54
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Joined: 2009-09-08 01:27:46
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Brenda, your answer probably is over-generalized. While many geeks have been known for having poor people skills, I rarely see any geeks acting the way that Mortenwold was describing. Most of the geeks I've known tend to be rather easygoing individuals.

Now, immaturity is a real problem. But, by the same token I have met people who are immature and don't mistreat others. The real problem, which is exactly what Mortenwold has described, is arrogance and pretension. There are people who, for one reason or another, consider themselves to be vastly superior or more important than others, and because of that they feel no need to show respect to others. Quite often, this is the result of how they were raised. Sometimes, its the result of psychological disorders such as APD or BPD.

Either way, these people feel that only they and their opinions matter, and that they are entitled to mistreat or disrespect others.


2012-01-03 12:14:46
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Joined: 2009-03-17 18:42:51
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Lord wrote:
Oh, I almost forgot to address this issue....I have known some people who think that Henri is somewhat rude in his responses (though I would describe it as 'cutting to the heart of the matter' and/or 'not going to suffer fools or disrespectfulness') and to be truthfull, I haven't found a SL TPV developer/programmer yet who doesn't get their feathers ruffled and let someone know it. ;)
I'm blunt and don't embarrass myself with any diplomatic consideration, and I also hate repeating myself twice or see people making the same mistake twice when I politely pointed out their mistake the first time... I'm demanding towards others but I'm even more demanding towards myself. So yes, I'm not an "easy" guy... but given my age, it's way too late to change, if to suppose I'd even want to change.

As for the general attitude (and not just mine), there is another thing you must consider: Open Source developers dedicate their time to a project for free. 95% of them only do it out of self-interest (i.e. they develop or contribute to a software because they use it or need it for themselves in the first place).
As a result, users of Open Source software shall not expect the same kind of support as for paying software; even if Open Source solutions actually often offer a better and more reactive support solution than most commercial software, you cannot demand that any Open Source developer solves your issue or implements a feature you want: you may only kindly ask for them, and hope the developer in question will work on your issue or adopt your proposal.
Open Source also offers you another solution: if you feel like it and are skilled enough, you can contribute yourself to the project or even fork it to make it "yours".
So, in the end, as a developer of an Open Source project, when facing such demanding attitudes such as some people show off, your most logical and efficient choice is often to turn these people off and tell them to go see elsewhere: doing so, you stop loosing your time arguing with unreasonable people that in the end will not like your decisions.


2012-01-03 14:46:43
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Joined: 2009-12-23 16:26:29
Posts: 32
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++ Henri !!!

I would like to also point out a factor in communicating with people that many forget to take into account. A lot of different people from various parts around the world are involved here and quite often that means there is someone translating from their native to tongue to another. For example Henri is French I believe but quite bilingual and so he get's along quite well. I know that many other TPV developers are German, Italian etc and they can come across differetly than they intend to. It can often comes across as hostile or agressive without that intent.

Although, there are some downright rude people but as the saying goes "ces't la vie".

WS


2012-01-06 15:06:00
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Joined: 2011-12-30 03:02:31
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Location: Corporate-Fascist States of America
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Good points all, but the impression I got from the TPV developers in question is that they simply despise the V1 UI and want it to go away so badly that they're reduced to lying about it going away in order to get more people to use the V2-V3 UI viewer they hitched their wagon to. It's like, just as with LL, they can't being themselves to admit that they made a mistake and their reactions to any and all criticism reflect this.


2012-01-06 15:53:27
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