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My take about the new TPV policy rules http://sldev.free.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=741 |
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Author: | Henri Beauchamp [ 2012-09-29 15:29:14 ] | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Post subject: | Re: My take about the new TPV policy rules | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Here is what I think to be the very first case of the 2.k rule being enforced, in contradiction with Oz' own words about the mesh deformer when he replied to the questions on that rule... I finally decided to publish these emails since not only do they explain why I had to disable the experimental mesh deformer code in the stable release of the Cool VL Viewer, but also because it shows how badly Open Source contributors are treated by Linden Lab (note that it is nothing new either: the first talented Open Source contributor to give up because of LL's arrogant and inadequate behaviour was Nicholaz Beresford, back in 2008)... Oz' email was in reaction to a suggestion I made and a patch I submitted on the JIRA for STORM-1716 If you wish to comment about it, please keep it drama and flame wars free.
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Author: | Tillie [ 2012-09-30 10:58:28 ] |
Post subject: | Re: My take about the new TPV policy rules |
I want to see a decision by LL once, where everyone goes YAY! instead of OHNOES! Just once. |
Author: | Tonya Souther [ 2012-10-01 17:05:16 ] |
Post subject: | Re: My take about the new TPV policy rules |
Henri, your contributions are indeed valuable. If we didn't think so, they wouldn't be in Phoenix or Firestorm. However, you must understand that Oz's hands are tied when it comes to using them. The decision is not his to make, and repeatedly beating him up over it is not going to get it changed. He's just saying what the decision is. The lawyers made the decision, based on US law - which is what LL operates under. If you feel that French law prohibits you from giving LL your real name and address and phone, that's your choice to make. You're not going to change LL's mind. If you were going to, you would have long before now. Given your and LL's stances, Oz's request not to add patches on the JIRA makes sense. |
Author: | Henri Beauchamp [ 2012-10-01 18:34:25 ] | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Post subject: | Re: My take about the new TPV policy rules | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Fact is that Oz (or other persons at LL) suddenly changed their mind after I made a valuable suggestion and gave away LGPL code for anyone to reuse it (and this, even before that patch was integrated to my viewer, meaning I was really not trying to attract new users to it, but just trying to be helpful to the Open Source developers community at large). So, in fact, my reward for trying to be helpful was to be "punished" by someone who took back his words. My feeling is that LL is pissed off because I produce better code than they do and, since their stupid stance prevents them from reusing it (nothing can prevent them from reusing LGPL code that I explicitly released as such and personally encouraged them to reuse: CA or not, they *CAN* reuse it since it's LGPL !!!), they wish I would never submit any code, in case they (or another developer) would come up with the same ideas as the ones I have (re-read Oz' first email: it's evident !). LL never understood what the concept of Open Source entailed. They want the benefits of the free coding "horsepower" from Open Source developers but they don't want the said developers to create viewers that are better (or more feature-full and innovative) than theirs; seeing how it is being enforced in this case, it demonstrates that it's the whole purpose of rule 2.k So long for the "Your World, Your Imagination" motto... |
Author: | Tonya Souther [ 2012-10-01 20:16:52 ] |
Post subject: | Re: My take about the new TPV policy rules |
I'm not fond of 2.k either, and find LL's stance on the subject confusing. However...I also understand what they think they need, according to their lawyers: not just the right to use the code, but the right to own (or at least co-own) it, so they can do with it whatever they need under any license they choose. Your releasing the code as LGPL doesn't cut it for that purpose. That's what the CA gives them. And their lawyers are probably telling them that no, a name and an email address are not sufficient identification for a lawsuit. You will never convince them otherwise, and continuing to tell them you're right has long since crossed into the realm of equine sadonecrobestiality. They're not going to accept your contributions without a CA, no matter what the license. Get over it. |
Author: | Henri Beauchamp [ 2012-10-01 21:00:16 ] | |||||||||
Post subject: | Re: My take about the new TPV policy rules | |||||||||
If you are not convinced, just re-read the LGPL... |
Author: | Tonya Souther [ 2012-10-01 21:49:06 ] |
Post subject: | Re: My take about the new TPV policy rules |
Neither you opinion or mine matters, though. It's LL's lawyers who count. They have made their decision, right or wrong. You and I can either live with it or go find another codebase to work in. I choose to live with it - and yes, that includes giving LL my name and address and phone number, when I have more reason than most to keep them confidential. You go right ahead and choose whatever you think right, but you've already beaten the horse to an unrecognizable grease stain, and everyone knows your stand. |
Author: | Henri Beauchamp [ 2012-10-01 22:58:09 ] | |||||||||
Post subject: | Re: My take about the new TPV policy rules | |||||||||
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Author: | WolfBaginski [ 2012-10-02 16:00:09 ] |
Post subject: | Re: My take about the new TPV policy rules |
Not for the first time, I wonder if Oz Linden has ever dealt with Open Source before he came to Linden Labs. As for the corporate lawyers, over the years i have seen some strange stuff from such people, attempting to play safe on interpreting the law when they don't seem all that sure of what the technology is. I've seen some rather greedy copyright grabs, which make a little sense when you think about the problems of deleting such material from backups. But did they need to be so greedy to keep that data on the backup? They haven't needed to own, or co-own, the copyright since the 1970s. And things such as the LGPL have been crafted by people who do know what they are doing. |
Author: | ArchangelMortenwold [ 2012-10-29 23:20:31 ] | |||||||||
Post subject: | Re: My take about the new TPV policy rules | |||||||||
Souther, you need to understand that what Linden Lab did in demanding Henri's real-world address and telephone number is illegal under French and European Union laws. This is not mere opinion; it is written law, and Linden Lab is in violation of it. |
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