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Does support for Bento break existing content? 
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Joined: 2010-04-07 08:23:18
Posts: 162
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Hello everyone, hi Henri,

ok, I am confused. And due to the lack of options of checking certain things out myself (namely an official 64-bit viewer for Linux from LL and a lack of Windows) I decided to ask here. I hope you won't mind too much, Henri.

On the 1.26.20.0 viewer, avatars do render differently, It looks like the way existing rigged mesh is sized and moves is way different from 1.26.18 series to the point that some items no longer seem usable at all and many existing arrangements (like, say, restraint positions) would need to be reworked in order to fit again.

Sooo ... is this a bug? In LL's code base? In Cool VL Viewer? Or just LL being generous and providing the mother of all content breakages to SL merchants? I can provide before and after pictures if so desired, but for now I'm simply wondering if I'm going insane or if others witness similar things.

Love,
Lia


2016-12-10 21:10:26
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Joined: 2009-03-17 18:42:51
Posts: 3628
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Please, give repro steps...

I personally only noticed one issue with a werewolf avatar (caused by invalid ridging, and LL stated they won't "fix" it viewer side: the creator will have to re-ridge it...), but there are probably other breakages or minor changes in how joints are dealt with... See, this JIRA for example... Your best bet would be to download LL's Bento viewer and see if the same thing happens (I doubt there's a bug in my viewer, for I'd already noticed it during the many months I used it daily, I think, but one never knows).


2016-12-10 22:25:51
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Joined: 2010-04-07 08:23:18
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Hello Henri,

yes, I would have worked it out in more detail already, but I am not going to mess up my nice shiny clean 64-bit Linux with 32-bit libraries anymore just to run LL's lousy viewer. :x

I'll try to distill it down to a bare minimum with item references and snapshots. Something tells me this shouldn't be that I manage to find two such combinations within a week (saw the first one while briefly on the last 1.26.19 already -- which, shame on me, was the first 1.26.19 one I tried at all). Might take me some some time, though.

Love,
Lia


2016-12-10 23:01:00
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Joined: 2009-03-17 18:42:51
Posts: 3628
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Also, make sure to use the "Refresh" avatar feature on avatars that appear deformed (right click to get the pie menu, then "More>" and "Refresh"): it also rebuilds the avatar skeleton and properly "undeforms" most avatars.


2016-12-11 00:26:17
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Joined: 2010-04-07 08:23:18
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Hello again Henri,

I did make three screen caps which illustrate the issue. On the left side 1.26.20.0 logged in with my testing alt, the larger right side 1.26.18.35 logged in with my main. I did mark the issues with red circles. As the caps are too big to upload here, I put them on my shop server:

https://ai-toys.com/Example_1.jpg
https://ai-toys.com/Example_2.jpg
https://ai-toys.com/Example_3.jpg

This just up front to give you an idea what it is I am seeing. I did try your suggestion regarding the "Refresh", but that doesn't make any difference. Once I find more time, I will try to distill it down further.

So far it simply seems that (possibly just) the upper body distorts differently with the shape as before, and/or any rigged mesh worn (as well?). I have no idea what to make of it.

Love,
Lia


2016-12-13 21:23:19
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Joined: 2009-03-17 18:42:51
Posts: 3628
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This looks like Bento quirks, yes... The kind of quirks that should be reported to LL. But please, first, do test with LL's official Bento viewer (in case it would be a Cool VL Viewer specific bug).


2016-12-13 23:44:02
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Joined: 2014-11-29 21:47:31
Posts: 27
Location: Japan
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The image on the left seems to have "Advanced Lighting Model" disabled?
It looks like the previous renderer, not Deferred rendering. :roll:


2016-12-14 02:34:18
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Joined: 2009-03-17 18:42:51
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Mayumi Hirano wrote:
The image on the left seems to have "Advanced Lighting Model" disabled?
It looks like the previous renderer, not Deferred rendering. :roll:

This won't make any difference: shaders are not involved in mesh rigging.


2016-12-14 08:52:07
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Joined: 2010-04-07 08:23:18
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Hi again,

yes, I suspected that this was somehow related to Bento changes. But, as I mentioned before, I currently have no simple way to try an LL viewer on short notice. Maybe I can come up with an option at some point soon -- I'll let you know the results then.

Love,
Lia


2016-12-14 18:49:28
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Joined: 2010-04-07 08:23:18
Posts: 162
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And hello once again,

I managed to think of something and run a test with the latest official LL viewer on Windows, and, surprise, surprise, it is of course a Linden issue. Breakage is exactly identical to the one I saw in Cool VL to the last little vertex, it seems.

Sorry for bothering everyone here, especially you, Henri. I should have known. I don't think I'm going to report this, however. My frustration level with LL is high enough as is, and I don't have the self control or energy to go through that in a calm and professionally detached manner.

With FS going Bento as well, what will no doubt happen is that people will accept any breakage and the broken state will be the new normal, thus not be fixed anyway because it would then "break content". :roll:

Sorry for the rant. :cry:

Love,
Lia


2016-12-14 21:50:02
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