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Extended Environment and the sky 
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Joined: 2020-07-08 23:18:37
Posts: 34
I had a "what if" moment, so I could be totally off base with this idea...

What if the renderer could be forced to stay on the brighter side of the 'flash'? The server-side default day cycle environment we're subjected to on the mainland regions is far darker during the daytime than it should be, in my opinion. It is one reason I made my own EEP day cycle.

ZaneZimer wrote:
Just another observation from this morning, when I rotate and bring the bright or flashing sky into view, my frame rate goes up. If I rotate back into what I assume is the normal, darker sky view, the frame rate drops as if I have water culling enabled, but I do not. Obviously, using the new settings to enforce culling all the time, keeps the frame rate more constant and lower and the sky stays a normal brightness as well.


I have noticed this as well. Could it be that a bug in LL's code is killing the framerate and creating a much darker environment at the same time? Thus, maybe we're only seeing the correct sky brightness and a normal framerate in certain rare circumstances. Well, who knows? I'm just thinking out loud...


2020-07-19 18:22:20
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Joined: 2016-06-19 21:33:37
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Location: Columbus area, OH, USA
KJ_Eno wrote:
I have noticed this as well. Could it be that a bug in LL's code is killing the framerate and creating a much darker environment at the same time? Thus, maybe we're only seeing the correct sky brightness and a normal framerate in certain rare circumstances. Well, who knows? I'm just thinking out loud...
That might be possible but I somehow doubt it. My reasoning is twofold. Firstly, to me, the bright or flashed version of the sky is not natural looking. It and the clouds virtually glow for me. While I agree with you that the new Linden EE seems to be dark and moody overall, the 'buggy' version of the sky is worse. Secondly, with the setting that Henri created/enabled, the entire sky becomes consistent AND as he has stated, the Linden code does this water culling ALL the time. This appears to be what they want and/or expect the sky to look like.


2020-07-19 20:06:26
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Joined: 2020-07-08 23:18:37
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ZaneZimer wrote:
KJ_Eno wrote:
...snip...
That might be possible but I somehow doubt it. My reasoning is twofold. Firstly, to me, the bright or flashed version of the sky is not natural looking. It and the clouds virtually glow for me. While I agree with you that the new Linden EE seems to be dark and moody overall, the 'buggy' version of the sky is worse. Secondly, with the setting that Henri created/enabled, the entire sky becomes consistent AND as he has stated, the Linden code does this water culling ALL the time. This appears to be what they want and/or expect the sky to look like.

I'd really like to see a screenshot of your sky then. Here is one of mine using mainland server-side environment when it is bright, i.e., in the middle of the 'flash' as we call it. I see no glowing clouds either. It is the full interface (for reference), unedited except to hide L$ balance, and resized and compressed to get it down below the 64kB upload limit.

You might be able to make out the framerate in the bottom right corner. If not, it's 42 fps at 128m draw distance on a mainland region with full shadows, ambient occlusion, LOD 2, ~1080p, etc. I'd take that sky and framerate any day over what is 'normal' if said normal means 50% lower fps and an even darker sky. My avatar (an alt) is using a medium/dark skin. I'm almost of the opinion that the "dark and moody" sky is part of the bug, which would become the new 'normal' once the vast majority of users currently on Firestorm eventually try out EEP for the first time and accept it without question. I also think you're giving LL too much credit, but don't tell them I said that. ;)


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2020-07-19 21:04:51
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Joined: 2016-06-19 21:33:37
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Location: Columbus area, OH, USA
It's all dependent on sun position for me. At noon, the bright sky effect is barely noticeable as I cam around. It's fairly noticeable at night or twilight times of day. The low altitude clouds (which looks like you might have turned off), become a bit intense as the sun rises or sets. I also see them flickering independently of the sky sometimes as multiple layers move over each other.

I don't recall what the region/parcel time was in the image from the OP (that is a single image BTW, not two cropped together). When I did a Snapshot, I must have caught the phenomenon partway through. Here is another: Image


2020-07-19 22:05:53
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Joined: 2020-07-08 23:18:37
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It is true, I turn off the low altitude clouds. They are fine with the old WL renderer, but they don't look good to me on the EEP renderer.

Edit: I don't see your images.


2020-07-19 22:08:52
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Joined: 2016-06-19 21:33:37
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Location: Columbus area, OH, USA
KJ_Eno wrote:
It is true, I turn off the low altitude clouds. They are fine with the old WL renderer, but they don't look good to me on the EEP renderer.

Edit: I don't see your images.
I have noticed when I use the image tag/markdown in this forum, they do not show. If you right click on the word 'image' in my post and select view image, it should show.


2020-07-19 22:35:12
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Joined: 2009-03-17 18:42:51
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KJ_Eno wrote:
It is true, I turn off the low altitude clouds. They are fine with the old WL renderer, but they don't look good to me on the EEP renderer.
The EE renderer introduced "color space channels" for RGB rendering. If you switch EE on while the viewer was already running, you risk seeing textures with the wrong channel assigned appearing as "glowing".
The pseudo-glowing effect may also affect textures that are not fully loaded (particularly visible in particles, such as the low altitude clouds), but it disappears once the affected textures are finalized/loaded. I'll see if I can implement a "force-reload" feature for particle textures, so to work-around that issue...


2020-07-20 09:07:57
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Joined: 2016-06-19 21:33:37
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Location: Columbus area, OH, USA
Henri Beauchamp wrote:
If you switch EE on while the viewer was already running, you risk seeing textures with the wrong channel assigned appearing as "glowing".
It may be that in all my testing I did that. I knew it was best to enable EE prior to logging in but I was trying so many things at one point, this is probably the effect I saw.


2020-07-20 12:06:20
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Joined: 2020-07-08 23:18:37
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Henri, you have said that you cannot see this issue. How about trying this: Fly up to 1000m in a mainland sim using the region environment. I noticed that the higher I went, the more likely I was to see the brighter sky. At 1000m, orbiting the camera around my avatar will only produce the 'normal' sky when the camera focus is below the horizon relative to the avatar. Toggle water culling off and on. I can fly between sims at this altitude and the results are always the same. Once back on the ground or over water, the sky is 'normal' again unless the camera just happens to point in just the right direction in just the right place, if at all.


2020-07-20 14:47:29
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Joined: 2009-03-17 18:42:51
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KJ_Eno wrote:
Henri, you have said that you cannot see this issue. How about trying this: Fly up to 1000m in a mainland sim using the region environment. I noticed that the higher I went, the more likely I was to see the brighter sky. At 1000m, orbiting the camera around my avatar will only produce the 'normal' sky when the camera focus is below the horizon relative to the avatar. Toggle water culling off and on. I can fly between sims at this altitude and the results are always the same. Once back on the ground or over water, the sky is 'normal' again unless the camera just happens to point in just the right direction in just the right place, if at all.
Still not seeing what you describe happening, whatever the altitude, sky settings or camera focus/zoom. I tried in ALM mode with or without shadows, to no avail.
I can notice a slight flicker when rotating my avatar around at that sky altitude while water edges culling is off, but it's very transitory (a split second, i.e. comparable to the monitor frame rate which is 60Hz) and never changes permanently the sky brightness, also the flicker appears as horizontal (ever so slightly lighter/darker) bands, not half a vertical screen like on your screen shots...

Anyway, I'm afraid this case is closed as far as I am concerned. I am not responsible for that render glitch, and if you don't want to see it happening, just endure the lower frame rates (comparable to LL's viewer) by activating the setting.


2020-07-20 15:12:35
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