Cool VL Viewer forum
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Lag on your Viewer-side end
http://sldev.free.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2215		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  skosex [ 2021-08-28 17:14:53 ]
Post subject:  Lag on your Viewer-side end
I have used CVV for many years but for the last couple of years my FPS have dropped and dropped and now it is typicsl not more than max 10 FPS when it is best :(
Anybody who have an ide about what it can be ?

onboard graphic card drivers is always up to date and CVV is never older than a few months before it get deleted and updated from scratch.

Thank you in advance

Here is my stats from CVV about

Cool VL Viewer v1.28.2.33, 64 bits, Jul 17 2021 12:28:00
Release notes

You are at 257371.4, 291290.1, 3503.0 in Paalen located at
simhost-00a3658f431c0ecf8.agni.secondlife.io (34.222.63.101:13029)
Alias: ec2-34-222-63-101.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com
Second Life Server 2021-07-29.562252
Release notes

CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8700 CPU @ 3.20GHz (3192 MHz)
Memory: 32624MB
OS version: Microsoft Windows 10 64 bits v10.0 (build 10586.1165)
Memory manager: OS native
Graphics card vendor: Intel
Graphics card: Intel(R) UHD Graphics 630
Windows graphics driver version: 30.00.0100.9805
OpenGL version: 4.2.0 - Build 30.0.100.9805
Detected VRAM: 1024MB
J2C decoder: OpenJPEG: 1.4.0.635f
Audio driver: FMOD Studio v2.02.01
Networking backend: libcurl/7.47.0 OpenSSL/1.0.2l zlib/1.2.8
Embedded browser: Dullahan 1.12.2/CEF 91.1.21/Chromium 91.0.4472.114
Packets lost: 738/114886 (0.6%)

Built with: MSVC v1916
Compiler-generated maths: SSE2.

Compile flags used for this build:
/O2 /Oi /DNDEBUG /D_SECURE_SCL=0 /D_HAS_ITERATOR_DEBUGGING=0 /DWIN32 /D_WINDOWS /W3 /GR /EHsc /std:c++14 /EHs /fp:fast /TP /MP /W2 /c /nologo /GS- /Zc:threadSafeInit- /DLL_WINDOWS=1 /DUNICODE /D_UNICODE /DWINVER=0x0600 /D_WIN32_WINNT=0x0600 /DXML_STATIC /DLL_NETBIOS=1 /DBOOST_ALL_NO_LIB /DLL_FMOD=1 /DAPR_DECLARE_STATIC /DAPU_DECLARE_STATIC /DCURL_STATICLIB=1 /DLL_NDOF=1
Author:  Henri Beauchamp [ 2021-08-28 18:59:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Lag on your Viewer-side end
The viewer gets faster as time passes. I just made a benchmark between v1.26.24.23 (released on 2020-06-20) and today's v1.28.2.37 and got these figures (with the exact same settings and in the exact same conditions, of course; in particular the new version, which got EE rendering, was set to the WL rendering mode to match the old version's render pipeline):

In my skybox, with 3 alts of mine on screen:
  • v1.26.24.23: 555fps
  • v1.28.2.37: 780fps
That's a +40% speed gain in light rendering conditions (i.e. we mainly measure the gains obtained via the C++ code optimizations in the main loop, outside of the render pipeline).

At ground level (in main land, 256m DD, just in front of the door of the Cool Shop, looking at its forest):
  • v1.26.24.23: 103fps
  • v1.28.2.37: 120fps
That's a +17% speed gain in relatively heavy render conditions (the forest got a sh*tload of alpha textures because of the trees).

Conclusion: if something slowed down for you, that's certainly not the viewer's fault... All those "minor optimizations" you can see listed for almost every release's notes are piling up over time and end up as quite significant speed gains over years...

Of course, if you look at several years back, things changed a lot *in SL*; you now got materials, Bento avatar skeletons, animeshes, EE rendering (not recommended for weak GPUs such as Intel's), etc... Plus, people with more powerful computers keep buying more complex outfits that put a higher load on others' viewers than in the past.

Also, something could have changed on your system... Mitigations (they can really kill a CPU performances) ?... Some other programs running in the background ?... Bad cooling or bad power management settings (your CPU advertises a real frequency (3192MHz) that is inferior to the nominal base frequency (3200MHz), while it should be in turbo mode when running the viewer) ?...
Author:  skosex [ 2021-08-29 01:37:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Lag on your Viewer-side end
My headline come from the lagmeters help dialog "Lag on your viewer- side end"
I took a screendump from my land and the frame was 14 , in your cool shop to compare the frame was 13.

The pc i use CVV on, is my high performance music production pc (i know it is not a gamer pc) and i do NOT have any new softwares since i got the issue with such a low FPS.
I remember that on my pc here, i typical had between 60-110 fps in sl with CVV or official sl viewer and not so low as i have now.

Perhaps it can be some updates causing it , i can't say and unfortunately i do not have any benchmark test saved from a year or two back in the past.
Or maybe as you say, it can be things in Sl who can cause it.

About turbo mode, i just had it setup to this in BIOS as i wanted to test if it had any influence on SL compared to normal mode and it did not change a dine :lol:

So if anyone have suggestions to what i can do to get a better fps on my pc and the setup i have on it , i would apreciate it a lot.

Thank you in advance

Attachments:
Lag on your Viewer-side end lres2.jpg
Lag on your Viewer-side end lres2.jpg [ 61.63 KiB | Viewed 4169 times ]
Author:  Henri Beauchamp [ 2021-08-29 08:13:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Lag on your Viewer-side end
skosex wrote:
My headline come from the lagmeters help dialog "Lag on your viewer- side end"
The so-called "lag-meter" is just a crude indicator and in no way a proper diagnosis tool... Plus it mixes the concept of "lag" (i.e. abnormal delays such as network slowness/hiccups, scripts execution slowness, slow "frame" loop on server side, etc) with viewer frame rates (largely depending on the intrinsic performances of your system, but also on the complexity of the scene to render), which are two entirely different things...

Quote:
I took a screendump from my land and the frame was 14 , in your cool shop to compare the frame was 13.
You do not have a genuine GPU in your system; you cannot expect reaching (or even remotely approaching) the level of performances you could get with one.

Quote:
The pc i use CVV on, is my high performance music production pc (i know it is not a gamer pc)
My advice is for you to buy a graphics card (preferably a NVIDIA, since AMD's are extremely disappointing when it comes to OpenGL performances). Even with an old GTX 660 (I just benched it here on a secondary PC, under Win10, like in your case), you'd get 50+ fps rates (got 58) at the level of the Cool Shop door, with the same graphics settings as the ones I used for the above benchmark on my main PC (9700K @ 5.0HGz, GTX 1070 Ti, but under Linux).

Quote:
and i do NOT have any new softwares since i got the issue with such a low FPS.
What about Windoze itself ?... Things such as wsearch (Windows search service) can kill a PC performances; the viewers recently adopted an asset cache with individual files instead of a single VFS (Virtual File System) file: with a badly configured wsearch service, you could end up with it trying to index every new cached assets as they are downloaded by the viewer... I always disable wsearch, here (if you really need an indexing search service, use Everything; there's even a search toolbar for it now).

Quote:
I remember that on my pc here, i typical had between 60-110 fps in sl with CVV or official sl viewer and not so low as i have now.
Do you get any better frame rates with the official SL viewer, than with the Cool VL Viewer ?... If not, then why coming here to complain about poor performances, when they are obviously the result of the weaknesses of your system ?... I am not a magician, and cannot transform a poor performing PC into a gaming beast, just by coding the viewer !

Quote:
About turbo mode, i just had it setup to this in BIOS as i wanted to test if it had any influence on SL compared to normal mode and it did not change a dine :lol:
This is yet another proof that the bottleneck in your PC is at the iGPU level; with a true GPU, the bottleneck would move to your CPU, and the turbo mode would help a lot to get better frame rates.
Author:  skosex [ 2021-08-29 19:03:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: Lag on your Viewer-side end
Thank you for your advices.
I will try to follow up on windows updates who maybe can be a partly sinner for the low fps i got on my machine.
Maybe it is a combination of this and the way second life have changed as you wrote.

I will not buy a external graphic card for my music pc as it will make conflicts and proberly also destroy the low latency i have. (have try this a few times before in the past and the reason why i use onboard graphic card)
Maybe i have to get a second pc as a solution because your right about the onboard one never will be a good performance.

I find me a bit misunderstood as i did not come here to complain about the viewer but i came for advices and ideas about my low fps i have so i maybe could be so lucky and fix it.
I do not have a poor performance pc and never asked for a gaming beast ???
Sorry to read if you thought i wrote this.

So sorry i asked about my problem.
I promise not to use the forum again and change the viewer even if i use it since snowglobe stopped.

Have a nice day.
Author:  Henri Beauchamp [ 2021-08-30 09:24:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Lag on your Viewer-side end
skosex wrote:
I find me a bit misunderstood as i did not come here to complain about the viewer but i came for advices and ideas about my low fps i have so i maybe could be so lucky and fix it.
This forum is exclusively dedicated to the Cool VL Viewer. There are other forums (including LL's official one) to ask for advices about improving your SL experience with any viewer (since, obviously, your issue is not at all Cool VL Viewer-specific). If you come here to complain about poor viewer performances, it will be understood as a problem you would encounter with the Cool VL Viewer only.

Here, you complained that the viewer was slower now than it used to be before, which I demonstrated to be totally untrue (and is actually the exact opposite).

Quote:
I do not have a poor performance pc and never asked for a gaming beast ???
Yes, the graphics performances of your PC are extremely poor because of the use of an Intel iGPU (AMD APUs might prove a little better, but still far from what a discrete GPU can offer), and actually not suited for running a viewer at decent frame rates in most situations (i.e. all situations but light rendering scenes). No need for a gaming beast PC to run the SL viewers at decent frame rates, just a discrete GPU (and even an old GTX 660 will largely do with my viewer, as I also demonstrated).

If you do not want to hear the truth and face actual facts, then why asking in the first place ?... :roll:
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