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RLV Nametags 
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Joined: 2011-09-17 11:12:19
Posts: 360
Hi, a small question about RLV and shownametags.

The RP sim we are in gives a small health boost if you enable RLV and allows it to hide name tags for increased immersion. I have no issues with that, since I rarely have them on anyway for the same reason, but it seems that the variable limits a lot more than name tags in Cool Viewer. I drop inventory on a person, use the radar, see names in attached scripts or see names of people in the minimap.

I tested in Firestorm and there, shownametags only remove the name tags above peoples head, but none of the other features. Is there a way to mimic that behaviour in Cool VL Viewer?


2021-06-30 14:15:20
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Joined: 2009-03-17 18:42:51
Posts: 5523
The Cool VL Viewer implements Marine's RLV, not "RLVa" which is only an approximation of the former.

The RestrainedLove API documentation for @shownametags specifies:
Quote:
This restriction is the same as @shownames, except that it won't censor the chat with dummy names. However, avatars around will not have their names shown, the radar will be hidden, right-clicking on an avatar around will not disclose their names, and so on.
If you notice anything amiss in the Cool VL Viewer when compared to this documentation, please let me know (with repro steps) so that I can fix it.

As for what happens in Firestorm or other non genuine RLV viewers, it is of no concern whatsoever to me. Disputes between RLV and RLVa implementers will have to be resolved at their level, not mine !


2021-06-30 16:56:37
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Joined: 2011-09-17 11:12:19
Posts: 360
I don't know anything about RLV except what I just tried. Very strange that a variable called hidenametags does so much more though unrelated to the variable name, maybe that is why some changes has been made in what I assume is RLVa.

Either way, I don't know the history of RLV and it sounds like there is one, but annoying, cause I doubt much the sim owners will reconsider their RLV implementation based on Cool Viewers choice of RLV implementation. Seems most don't know there are other viewer options available.


2021-06-30 17:22:20
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Joined: 2009-03-17 18:42:51
Posts: 5523
Please, complain to Marine Kelley and Kitty Barnet...

As for the sim in question, they could just test for the @version and depending whether the viewer is a genuine RLV (Marine's, Cool VL Viewer, KokuaRLV) or RLVa (all others), they could grant a larger bonus to the former when the genuine @shownametags restriction is in force...


2021-06-30 17:57:30
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Joined: 2011-09-17 11:12:19
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Yea good idea. I'll send Marine a message. Like I said I don't know the history and it sounds like there is a lot, but from an outside standpoint it seems that either the implementation or the variable name is wrong.


2021-06-30 18:02:26
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Joined: 2009-03-17 18:42:51
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Catten wrote:
I'll send Marine a message.
Marine is for nothing in this fiasco (*).

RLVa diverged from the official API instead of sticking to it.

Should the same thing happen to me (e.g. with my Lua API), you can bet I would be pissed off !...


(*) As for the name of the command, what do you expect it to be ?... @shownametagsandminimapandradarandwhatnot ?... The idea was to restrict everything but the chat which @shownames=n restricts as well; in any case when you implement (or use) a compatible API you refer to the documentation, not to the name of commands and the interpretation you make about what they should do or not depending on that name..


2021-06-30 18:11:49
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Joined: 2011-09-17 11:12:19
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Like I said, I don't know the history.. like at all.. Never used RLV before. It just seems odd from the outside that a @shownametags command would limit radar functionality or hide names in the minimap. Those things have nothing to do with name tags. It might very well follow the api, but then I think the variable name is misleading.

I don't intend on going into a "who is right" discussion with anyone regarding RLV / RLVa, I don't know enough about it, I'm just telling my observation as someone new to this api.


2021-06-30 18:59:26
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Joined: 2009-03-17 18:42:51
Posts: 5523
Catten wrote:
I think the variable name is misleading.
Which is totally unimportant. When you use a language, you read the documentation for each keyword and not just rely on what the name could or should mean, in your opinion...

RLV exists for over 13 years (probably close to 14 now). It evolved for years after its first release. That some keywords do things they did not do in the first place in the past (like when viewers did not even implement a radar !), is not surprising the least.

However, the responsibility for the discrepancy in @shownametags behaviour is Kitty's, not Marine's. RLVa was supposed to be a compatible API (in fact a re-implementation of RLV with the same API). Sadly, it is not fully compatible. Again, not Marine's fault.


2021-06-30 19:23:22
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Joined: 2011-09-17 11:12:19
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I don't take sides etc, in a situation I know nothing about, and there might be historic reasons why the things are the way they are but that doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to tell how I feel about them, especially since the various implementations negatively effect my sl experience? It's not like I wrote Marine and demanded she made changes because of me, I just told her about the experience I had.

Since the RLV implementation of shownametags removes a lot of things besides name tags, and that is a problem for me, it would make very little sense that I wrote who ever makes RLVa. You could argue that I should have kept my mouth shut to begin with but it was clear that this was not a cool viewer issue, and you told me to write Marine or Kelly, so I wrote the one who's implementation didn't work in my case. I don't see how I could have handled that any different, except suggest to the sim owners here that they restrict all their users use of radar etc. that is clearly not their intent either.


2021-06-30 19:47:06
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Joined: 2009-03-17 18:42:51
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Don't come back and complain that Marine ignores your request or gets pissed off. She wrote the specs. The specs were not followed by others, and now she would have to "fix" the specs ?... Come on !

Anyway, this discussion is now closed.


2021-06-30 19:53:49
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